(no subject)

[changeling]

The really violent Christian parallels with Shadow's death in American Gods struck me today, and I'd love to ask Neil if they were deliberate. Also, there seems to be a person missing in his story in McSweeney's Mammoth Treasury of Thrilling Tales. I've a feeling he may have answered that one a long time ago, though. Ah, the glories of a really boring job.

I hate people who post all their damn auctions to clothing groups. I know there's a goddamn community devoted to auctions. Take that shit over there.

Only receiving a couple of comments for a piece of writing I've posted is kinda disheartening. Receiving none is downright depressing. That's all I'm saying.

I still refuse to believe that Liberia is a real country. I don't recall learning about it in geography. Ever. Or colouring it in on a world map somewhere.


So. Today I had a miserable time of it, as I had my stomach, my uterus and my lower back competing to discover which could cause me the most excruciating pain. Not fun. I planned on coming home and sleeping (and doing washing) only to discover Nat, Sara and I had arranged to meet at Liaisons today. Only just got home half an hour ago. Hope I can get some washing done... considering I rewore a skirt of mum's that I nicked last week, and an old school shirt to work today. I'd better go do that.

Sigh.

Comments

[roshi.livejournal.com]

I noticed that too, but kind of ignored it as I have a tendency to see parallels between lots of older mythologies and Christianity since I like to nitpick. In traditional Norse mythology Odin hung on the tree, not his son - although there is a lot of illegitimacy amongst families like the Aesir so a lot of gods are related...

The Norse mythology book I got recently mentions the Christian-Norse similarities as well.

[delirieuse.livejournal.com]

Heh, I'm a mythology freak, so the really strong Christian overtones to everything involved in Shadow's death and rebirth didn't really occur to me, as I was thinking about the older religions. I did know about the hanged god parallels; some academics have postulated that as a reason why Christianity was so quickly taken up in the northern regions. That and the fact that I was fascinated with the sacrificial god a few months ago, and so spent some time pondering it (Ishtar's lover, is that Tammuz? and Dionysus is supposed to be a sacrificial god, too, although I haven't come across the earlier sources for that myth, just references to it).

Today the whole Eostre resurrecting him thing (and although a Pagan, I knew who Eostre was already. *grins*), and the idea of his ex-wife as Mary Magdalen... I really need to reread the book, so I can talk about it more confidently without being wary of misremembrances...

[roshi.livejournal.com]

The violent death/sacrifice of Christ doesn't seem to compare that well with Odin's hanging, to me - Christ did it to enforce 2000 years of guilt, Odin did it to learn secrets of the dead, although the very basic "yay death" sort of thing could easily win a battle-driven society over. Never mind that most Vikings would think Jesus was a girly hippe if they were introduced properly.

Dionysus is Bacchus, yes? That whole thing in Sandman with those women tearing Orpheus to shreds, they worshipped Bacchus, didn't they? I suppose, sacrifice of human/animal and other offerings to deities was standard operating procedures back then, and still is to a degree these days.

Found a good write-up on Dionysus here:

http://www.belinus.co.uk/mythology/Dionysus.htm

I've read the book about a dozen times and some of the little relationships and this-god-knows-that-god still goes over my head. I'm convinced I need to acquire a book on all the shit Loki got up to.

[delirieuse.livejournal.com]

Well, I studied The Bacchae for year 12 Lit, and then did Classical Mythology at Uni, so I'm pretty well versed on Dionysus/Bacchus/Liber. ;)

The women who tore Orpheus apart were the Maenads. The Bacchae is fascinating in its treatment of the Maenads and the madness - they're harmless until supressed. Euripides wrote that play as a backlash against the over-emphasis on logic and reason in Athenian society (or so said my lit teacher).

Heh, I just remember coming across the Christ/Odin parallel somewhere. I love Odin. He's just so knowing. I wouldn't trust him or Loki as far as I could throw them, however.
And I agree. Christ is a girlie hippie. *grins*

The only god I *really* don't get is the Nameless god. I managed to find references to most of the ones I didn't know (I even a book that tells me about Czernobog & Bielobog...although spelt differently, so it was hard to find them at first).

[roshi.livejournal.com]

The Nameless God... hang on, was that the guy in Vegas whom everyone forgot after they met him? I liked him. He's Luck, or something like it.

You're undoubtedly better educated on this stuff than I. Me, I read fairy tales.

Nameless god

[villainny.livejournal.com]

*Really* want to discover what mythology Neil was working with here, or whether he just made him up. I'm going for the "luck" thing here,too; kinda like Pratchett's interpretation; except, instead of running a risk when mentioning her name, here, you *can't* 'cos you can't remember him long enough. :)

(I'm referring to the Colour of Magic here, I think.)

I've been looking at a lot of the mythology he used, and it's fascinating how many parallels there are all over. But this one... nope, can't find anything.

Re: Nameless god

[roshi.livejournal.com]

He's something like Luck, or maybe, he's Chance, or Astounding Odds or something. I wish he'd wisper in my ear about going downtown for no particular reason. :/

Maybe Gaiman did make him up - is Shadow paralleled anywhere? I think I found a mention of a god/Aesir/etc person in my new book and their name meant Shadow.... don't know if he was directly related to Odin, though.

Re: Nameless god

[delirieuse.livejournal.com]

Well, Shadow isn't a god, so as far as I know, he's not from any pantheon. Especially what little I know about the background of the writing process from his journal and a couple of interviews I've heard.

[burningskyfire.livejournal.com]

*hugs*
Just so you know, I read your story and really liked it, but was unable to think of anything remotely intelligent to write as a comment.
But it was very cool and you write so well. :)

[delirieuse.livejournal.com]

*snugs* Thank you so much. When no one leaves a comment I never know if anyone's read it. I'd much rather a silent comment of "..." than nothing at all, you know? We used to leave those comments on OpenDiary all the time, just leave our name to sort of let the person know we'd read it, but couldn't write anything coherent. *shrugs*

Glad you enjoyed it. :)

Christian parallels

[villainny.livejournal.com]

I did an A level in Religious studies, and I'm really wishing I'd kept it up at Uni, 'cos I miss it. One thing I will say- it destroys the blind faith, so it ain't such a good idea to study it unless you're really confident in your faith and open to new interpretations. I myself don't subscribe to any organised religion because they don't really work for me.

There was a point to this, I swear. :)

A lot of Christianity, or at least the Bible, is quite obviously ripped off from earlier religions. (I am prepared for backlash for this comment. I like nothing better than debating with the Christian Union. ;)) Virgin birth is frequently a theme (see... Perseus, was it?) plus the idea of the circle of life- birth, death, resurrection- early religions would sacrifice kings in winter and nominate a new one in spring, therefore symbolising new life and mimicking the natural cycles to ensure that they would continue.

I could go on, but I won't. Anyone can discuss this with me further- the_nny@hotmail.com

Loved American Gods- it's given me a story bunny that I've been researching for 6 months. :)

Re: Christian parallels

[delirieuse.livejournal.com]

Honey, I'm a pagan and a mythology freak. I'm agreeing with you completely.

A lot of Christianity, or at least the Bible, is quite obviously ripped off from earlier religions.
I know, and I agree. For Jesus, read Dionysus, or Tammusz, or Odin. Personally I love Odin's sacrifice of himself to himself. That just boggles the mind, and gives me an idea for one of my original stories.

I went through my I-hate-Christianity phase, and now I'm in my Let's-see-what-interesting-stories-we-can-find-amidst-the-vitriol phase. ;)

Re: Christian parallels

[mattador.livejournal.com]

As far as destroying blind faith goes, I have to say that I don't think anything better could be done than that- someone who's afraid to question their faith, has none. Relying on blind faith is what gets us fanatics and "Sunday Christians" and etc... but, okay, that's rather off-topic in this thread so I'll hush.

Re: Christian parallels

[villainny.livejournal.com]

That's the argument that got me in trouble with the CU! Hehehe. All I *said* was that it wasn't wise to base a faith on the miraculous aspect of the faith, because it could be proved untrue. Just *imagine* how many wars would take place if some poor architect found Jesus' body? People that base their entire faith on the whole "Son of God", risen from the dead etc. would be screwed. Jesus had some good things to say, but... why does he have to be God to be taken seriously?

There was an article I read about Ancient Egyptian religion- and I wish I knew where it was because it was a fantastic piece of writing that I want to show to others- but it stated that they didn't need a water into wine thing, because they could see the miracle of existence- a yeast cell that creates the wine, and human beings existing to appreciate it.

Unfortunately, this is just archaeologists/historians speculating, and the peasants at the time would have been more swung by the belief in deities etc. Much like Christians today. It's the *ideas* *behind* faiths that are so interesting, and often so good.

Anyway... Babbling incoherency again. I should really learn when to shut up!

Re: Christian parallels

[mattador.livejournal.com]

Nonsense, all that makes perfect sense to me. Babble on if you will, it's most educational.